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Subgroup analysis divergence
gilles.plourde@mcgill.ca
Posted on 01/24/23 11:29:10
Number of posts: 23
Gilles

We are working on a project to investigate contrasting changes in regional brain blood flow during propofol-induced sedation and unconsciousness. To this aim, we use PLS to analyze PET rCBF images of 20 participants during four periods: baseline, mild sedation, deep sedation, unconsciousness. The results revealed two significant latent variables shown  in the following:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpv3x50o6j4tbc6/ALL_LV1.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4m49la5hqcb0kc5/ALL_LV2.png?dl=0

 

After using PLS to identify the cerebral structures that are affected by propofol we plan to use a linear mixed modelling regression approach to identify structures showing a step change  between deep sedation to unconsciousness from those that follow a uniform linear change from baseline to unconsciousness.

To address the issue of "double dipping" (N. Kriegeskorte et al. 2009 (doi:10.1038/nn.2303))  we divided our dataset in two group of ten participants (ODD and EVEN enrolment numbers) and re-did PLS analysis for these two groups.

The results for the  ODD group follow same trends as the original dataset (with 20 participants):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwo9zgxh0yxg52l/ODD_LV1.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xwdafli4wc8xx6e/ODD_LV2.png?dl=0

 

The results for LV1 of the  EVEN group follows same trends as the original dataset (with 20 participants). But LV2 of the EVEN group is a  mirror image of  LV2 of the original dataset (with 20 participants) i.e. as if the the design scores had been multiplied by -1:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1g7xtat1wdk03qu/EVEN_LV1.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2h4ktogfud58br8/EVEN_LV2.png?dl=0

 

How can this mirror image finding be explained?

Thank you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Replies:

Untitled Post
rmcintosh
Posted on 01/26/23 14:29:53
Number of posts: 394
rmcintosh replies:

quote:

We are working on a project to investigate contrasting changes in regional brain blood flow during propofol-induced sedation and unconsciousness. To this aim, we use PLS to analyze PET rCBF images of 20 participants during four periods: baseline, mild sedation, deep sedation, unconsciousness. The results revealed two significant latent variables shown  in the following:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpv3x50o6j4tbc6/ALL_LV1.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4m49la5hqcb0kc5/ALL_LV2.png?dl=0

 

After using PLS to identify the cerebral structures that are affected by propofol we plan to use a linear mixed modelling regression approach to identify structures showing a step change  between deep sedation to unconsciousness from those that follow a uniform linear change from baseline to unconsciousness.

To address the issue of "double dipping" (N. Kriegeskorte et al. 2009 (doi:10.1038/nn.2303))  we divided our dataset in two group of ten participants (ODD and EVEN enrolment numbers) and re-did PLS analysis for these two groups.

The results for the  ODD group follow same trends as the original dataset (with 20 participants):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwo9zgxh0yxg52l/ODD_LV1.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xwdafli4wc8xx6e/ODD_LV2.png?dl=0

 

The results for LV1 of the  EVEN group follows same trends as the original dataset (with 20 participants). But LV2 of the EVEN group is a  mirror image of  LV2 of the original dataset (with 20 participants) i.e. as if the the design scores had been multiplied by -1:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1g7xtat1wdk03qu/EVEN_LV1.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2h4ktogfud58br8/EVEN_LV2.png?dl=0

 

How can this mirror image finding be explained?

Thank you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HI Gilles.

The signs that come out of SVD are arbitrary so this can happen.  You can check the brain image to see if too is a mirror image - you can do by eye or do the dot-product of results.u matrices from the two analyses

e.g; result1.u' * result2.u

the values for the dot product are cosines (correlations) so if they are high negative then you can be certain its the same effect in both groups.

 

hope that makes sense


Randy



Subgroup analysis divergence - follow up
gilles.plourde@mcgill.ca
Posted on 01/27/23 16:36:00
Number of posts: 23
Gilles

Thank you very much Randy!  Your reply makes perfect sense (as always). Is there a quick / easy way to modifiy the result file so that both data set have results that look the same? This would make presentation of the results simpler and avoid the risk that a referee will be side-tracked by this technical issue.

Kind regards,

Gilles



Untitled Post
rmcintosh
Posted on 01/28/23 10:35:47
Number of posts: 394
rmcintosh replies:

Yep - just take one of the results files and multiply the LV by -1. 



Untitled Post
gilles.plourde@mcgill.ca
Posted on 01/28/23 13:26:45
Number of posts: 23
Gilles

Thanks!

Gilles




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